Bobcat Goldthwait doesn't make movies for the masses. Love them or hate them, you have to respect that his films are not prepackaged creations designed to fit some concept of the popular aesthetic. Like any filmmaker, he wants to connect with an audience, but he is first and foremost interested in making films that he would want to see. Most great filmmakers are. Goldthwait’s World's Greatest Dad is easily his best film to date and one that displays a confidence and awareness that comes with decades of moviemaking experience. He sat down for a spirited and incredibly enjoyable conversation in Chicago this week.
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MovieRetriever: When you took World’s Greatest Dad to Sundance and the response was so overwhelmingly positive, were you surprised?
BOBCAT GOLDTHWAIT: Yeah because the last movie I had there, during the press screening, the projector broke down. (Laughs.) I'm just glad that it's been getting a favorable response. I'm fully aware that this movie has a lot of hurdles. If you heard what it was about, you would think that it was a slob comedy and my involvement and Robin. We both come with a lot of baggage. And then the name too. I don't think the name helps us much.
Bobcat Goldthwait on the set of World's Greatest Dad.
Photo courtesy of Magnolia Pictures.
MovieRetriever: Then why choose the name?
GOLDTHWAIT: I thought it was funny when I wrote it. (Laughs.) I thought it was funny, I just think people's perception of, once again, Robin and myself, they think it's going to be a "wacky comedy."
MovieRetriever: There's an interesting line at the beginning where Lance expresses more interest in fame than creative fulfillment.
GOLDTHWAIT: He's saying that he wants success, but in a very cartoony way we see into his psyche what he's really imagining, which is that he'd be popular and have women and money. In my mind, Lance is writing for the wrong reasons. He's trying to ... to try and make stuff artistically and you're thinking of how it's going to affect other people and the repercussions is ... well, I shouldn't say that ... trying to make art for fame and money and all that is really silly. Trying to make stuff to connect with other people is a valid way to make stuff.
MovieRetriever: And the first line of your director's statement is "When I make a movie my only goal is to get to see it projected in front of an audience." But that's more of a connection standpoint than a fame standpoint.
GOLDTHWAIT: Oh, definitely. When it works for people, it's really exciting. I think people find it hard to believe that when I'm writing, I'm not saying "Oh, this will make a lot of money. Oh, this will make me really successful." Those are the furthest things from my mind. I think if I was really trying to make a lot of money, I would try and write a Judd Apatow movie .... or worse ... I'm not really interested in that.
MovieRetriever: But it raises an interesting idea about writing for yourself versus trying to appeal to an audience and how you balance the two. What's more important – if you like it or if the audience likes it?
GOLDTHWAIT: It's definitely ... I'm trying to make movies that I would go to.
MovieRetriever: You have to satisfy yourself first.
GOLDTHWAIT: Yeah. If it works for other people, that's awesome, but I spent most of my career just reacting to whatever was offered me or trying to pursue the things that Lance is trying to pursue – meet women and get rich. (Laughs.) It doesn't work and it's not very fulfilling.
Robin Williams in World's Greatest Dad.
Photo courtesy of Magnolia Pictures.
MovieRetriever: When and how did you realize that?
GOLDTHWAIT: I realized that when I had all those things that Lance wants. I had the cute girl that's half-in and half-out of the relationship with me. I did have fame and all of that. It never felt right. It never felt right. It always felt really strange. I'm glad I had a persona to hide from ... wait, Freudian slip ... hide BEHIND all those years because it doesn't feel right or good.
MovieRetriever: But now that you've ditched that persona, don't you feel more comfortable?
GOLDTHWAIT: I'm much happier. It's funny. The cynical person who blogs or comments is going to say, "Well, he says he's happier now but...." I read a comment that was like, "That's what someone says when they've made mistakes and burned bridges and they're not happy." It's like, "No, I'm happier now pursuing the things that make me happy." If you've convinced yourself that making money makes you happy, it doesn't. In our culture, people aren't really encouraged to be fulfilled.
MovieRetriever: Especially in celebrity.
GOLDTHWAIT: Yeah. Look, as soon as Howie Mandel hit with that game show, I was offered three pilots and they would have all been for a lot of money. I turned those down not because I'm above it but because I knew that it wasn't going to make me happy. It's not very fulfilling. To have strangers come up and say, "I saw ‘Who's Your Daddy?’ last night and the other guy should have won." I would have put a gun in my mouth. I do stand-up to pay the bills and I've been offered reality shows. I make these tiny, personal movies. I think the mentality that every movie you make is trying to reach the broadest audience [is wrong]. I don't really want to talk to anybody that goes and sees studio comedies. If you write a review of studio comedies, I have nothing in common with you. I couldn't imagine going to any of those movies. I was reading one of those movies and someone was like "This is my pet peeve – that they used something that was in Bring It On and Mean Girls." It's like, "I would rather have someone shoot me in the face than see Bring It On and Mean Girls. I don't even know what the f**k you're talkng about. You're an adult. You went and saw Mean Girls and now you're going to write about it. Seriously?"
MovieRetriever: Well, we do it so we can...
GOLDTHWAIT: Well, if you're FORCED to see them. I understand if it's your job. Look, there's a lot of comedy clubs I don't like playing and that's what I do for a living. I understand that, but to weigh in on those movies as if there's good ones, that's crazy.
MovieRetriever: My theory is that you have to see the sh*t to know what's good.
GOLDTHWAIT: Right. And you're going to stumble across ones that surprise. I remember seeing the first Tremors and loving that movie unexpectedly.
Poster art for World's Greatest Dad.
MovieRetriever: And, to be honest, to tell people about little films like yours, you have to cover the big ones.
GOLDTHWAIT: It's not like I'm back-peddling but there's so many movies made solely with absolutely no voice in the movie. It's nobody's idea. It's just solely to get made to make money to perpetuate fame and they're not about anything.
MovieRetriever: I completely agree and would like to think that I can help people avoid them.
GOLDTHWAIT: (Laughs.) Look, I've been IN plenty of them. But, you know, it's only as a middle-aged man that I looked around and said, "What the f**k am I doing?" You know what's kind of funny now? Now that I've made a couple comedies that worked for some people, Hollywood reaches out a bit because they think "We could get Bob and we could FIX him." The guy who runs some company that made some new movie – He owns a company that wanted to acquire this movie and re-edit it. That's retarded. You would think that a fellow filmmaker would realize that it's all subjective. It's like, "Dude, give me an AVID and a couple days with your film and I'll see what I could do with it." What a knucklehead.
MovieRetriever: I read in another interview that you thought of the ending of this film first. Can you let our readers know the origin of the project?
GOLDTHWAIT: I wanted it to be about a guy who grows up and doesn't do what's expected of him because he's convinced himself that it would make him happy. The only reason that Lance is rewarded by the end is that he's willing to be alone. That's really scary to most people – the idea of being alone. And then the reward is that he ends up with people in his life who like him and are supportive.
MovieRetriever: Whenever a writer makes a film about a writer, one has to wonder how much of the creator is in the character. How much of you is in Lance?
GOLDTHWAIT: About a day in, Robin just goes, "I'm playing you." And I was like, "Yeah." There's a ton of Lance in me. I just spent a good portion of my adult life thinking "Oh, poor me. I'm not getting a break." I realized that none of these things that I was pursuing were going to ever really make me happy – relationships or work.
Bobcat Goldthwait (left) and Robin Williams in World's Greatest Dad.
Photo courtesy of Magnolia Pictures.
MovieRetriever: If it's you, would you ever consider directing yourself in a movie?
GOLDTHWAIT: No. I really, really, really take making movies seriously and I want to put all of my energy into being the best writer and director I can be and I think it would be distracting. I make a cameo and it wasn't even really to be cute. Guillermo from the Kimmel show was supposed to play that part and he couldn't get the day off. He was doing a remote in Florida and I was in Seattle. I scrambled and held auditions that didn't go very well. I put myself in and I think it's funny how much I choked when the door opened up and it was Robin. (Laughs.) It was like The Chris Farley Show.
MovieRetriever: Did you write the part for Robin?
GOLDTHWAIT: No, no. I really would have stayed away from "poetry teacher who faces tragedy." (Laughs.) He really is one of the greatest actors in the world. I can't explain what really makes him good. It isn't just the empathy that people feel. It's so tiny and so natural. That's really the genius. It's the tiny moments that really....
MovieRetriever: Did you allow Robin input into his character?
GOLDTHWAIT: The reality is that there's a lot of ad-libbing but it's much more collaborative. You sit there and say, "What about this and that?" It's not just Robin. The kids asking questions about Kyle – I had written stuff but it just didn't work. So, I got all the kids together and let them come up with what they would ask. You trust the people you work with. Especially actors. I never hire anyone who doesn't get what they're doing. You need to get what the whole thing is about or I wouldn't have you on-board. I try not to hire people who just "do what they do" and don't get it.
MovieRetriever: Did Bruce Hornsby (who makes a great cameo) get it?
GOLDTHWAIT: Totally. And if he didn't, it would have come off as snarky. I needed someone that Lance would be a fan of. One of the nice byproducts of this movie is that people have a perception of me that I'm doing my best to change but people also have a perception of Daryl, Robin, Bruce Hornsby ... it's fun to say, "You know, it ain't over."
MovieRetriever: Do you prefer acting or directing?
GOLDTHWAIT: I prefer directing. If I never acted again, I would be really happy. Now that I take directing seriously, I have this whole new respect for actors.
MovieRetriever: What about your acting experience makes you a better director?
GOLDTHWAIT: I really stress that it's comfortable for the actors. On a set, there can be too much calamity. Actors can not feel safe and not feel like they're allowed to try different things or suggest different things. The bond company may want to shut me down, but I'll do another one because it's really terrible to be on a set making a comedy and everything is really stressful.
Alexie Gilmore (from left), Robin Williams, and Zach Sanchez
in World's Greatest Dad. Photo Courtesy of Magnolia Pictures.
MovieRetriever: Did you have too many uncomfortable set experiences or is there something about it you just don't enjoy?
GOLDTHWAIT: I don't enjoy it but I also feel that I don't think that it's what I'm strong at. I think there's a lot of people that are talented. It's funny. If you really boil Robin down, he thinks of himself as an actor first.
MovieRetriever: And you now think of yourself as a director first?
GOLDTHWAIT: TRYING to be a director. Trying to be a writer. And that's how I know that it's what I really want to do. I'm really trying.
MovieRetriever: You have so much creative control over your films now. Would you take an assignment or someone else's script ... $80 million budget, Ryan Reynolds, Sandra Bullock, back-end ... do you do it?
GOLDTHWAIT: (Laughs.) Sandy and Ry. No. No.
MovieRetriever: $10 million paycheck. Proposal, Part II.
GOLDTHWAIT: No, no, no.
MovieRetriever: What if it's the opposite? A GREAT script, but you didn't write it?
GOLDTHWAIT: Yeah. If it was a great script, but the problem would be the interference from ... getting notes and stuff. These last two movies were so small that I didn't get producer notes. Or from anybody. I want to keep doing that. I'll take jobs working for other people but the movies I'm making, I don't want to do that. I'm trying to build a trust with people.
MovieRetriever: Who has built a trust with you?
GOLDTHWAIT: There's so many people. Wes Anderson. There's so many folks. I like Quentin Tarantino, the Coen brothers, it's pretty basic stuff. I like going to see what P.T. Anderson does.
MovieRetriever: All writer/directors.
GOLDTHWAIT: All people who have a voice. I admire them. I get excited to watch their new stuff.
Bobcat Goldthwait's 2003 release I Don't Mean to Insult You,
But You Look Like Bobcat Goldthwait.
MovieRetriever: Do you still do stand-up?
GOLDTHWAIT: I do it to pay bills.
MovieRetriever: Do you enjoy it still?
GOLDTHWAIT: I didn't for the longest time and then recently I killed the character. And, by the way, if you're in the heartland and people come to see you do that? It's like being at a Poison reunion tour and not hearing "Every Rose Has Its Thorn." There's gonna be disgruntled audience members.
MovieRetriever: You must get asked to do it in airports.
GOLDTHWAIT: Sure. And morning radio shows. "The Taint and Teabag Show." Whatever. It's my own fault. I remember once seeing Spinal Tap performing live and Rob Reiner is there and the crowd starts going "Meathead! Meathead!"
MovieRetriever: Even he can't avoid his past.
GOLDTHWAIT: Yeah. And Ron Howard.
MovieRetriever: What's your airport question?
GOLDTHWAIT: I named a CD this because it was true. I did have a woman say, "I don't mean to insult you, but you look like Bobcat Goldthwait." A lot of people when they come up to me in an airport, they're unsure that it's me. And I do often hear, second hand, that people think I'm dead.
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Bobcat Goldthwait is definitely alive and kicking. His film, World's Greatest Dad, opened in Chicago on Sept. 4, 2009.
JONATHAN LANDRUM Jr.